Founder at Word of MICE & Past-President at MPI Belgium
Mariska Kesteloo
Mariska Kesteloo is an expert in B2B influencer marketing. Her goal is to use social media as a way of adding increased value to events, mostly through micro influencers. In this interview, she tells us the ins and outs of her job.
Exploit the power of social media, create valuable networks and contact the right people to increase visibility of events. Today we talk with Mariska Kesteloo, founder at Word of MICE and B2B influencer marketing expert. She offers us a detailed look at the meetings and events industry from her perspective: marketing and social media. In a frank interview, Mariska shares the lessons she’s learned on her professional journey and this new paradigm of events communications.
Tell us about your career and what drives you in your day to day work.
Ideas are born from frustration, that’s the reason why I started my company. Working as a freelance event professional for years, I visited many tradeshows and exhibitions where I talked with different hotels, venue’s and DMC’s. When I raised the question ‘Why should I organize an event in your hotel, venue or destination?’,often I received an answer like: we have 500 rooms, 10.000 square meters meeting room and we are a four-star property. These are facts and figures I can find online. Isn’t our industry all about creating amazing experiences and connecting the right people? Tell me the story of your hotel, why should I organize my upcoming event in it, and not at the neighbor’s? What is your unique selling point, how do you differentiate yourself from the others, and more importantly, what is your target audience? One size doesn’t fit all! You can’t be an expert in all fields, right? How is it possible that in the Twenty First century we still use the same methods that we’ve been using for the last thirty years, if not more? It’s time for a change!
How did you start working in B2B influencer marketing?
I had been working in the travel industry for more than ten years, with so many active bloggers and vloggers. This made me think: how about we use this medium in our B2B industry? We could use the power of experts, people with a professional experience in our sector, and let them tell their stories in a creative, fun or unique way. It’s always better to be recommended than having to promote yourself. Peer to peer recommendation is extremely powerful. It’s still word of mouth, only that we’re using the online tools called social media.
Testing the idea at IBTM in 2016, I discovered it had potential and, in 2017, I started working full-time. It’s been a huge challenge since then. One little mouse can create a huge impact in your life, so can one micro-influencer, so what if the word was spread by more mice or micro-influencers? That’s when Word of MICE was born!
It’s always better to be recommended than having to promote yourself. Peer to peer recommendation is extremely powerful. It’s word of mouth, only here we’re using the online tools called social media.
What do you find most exciting about being a leader in the meetings and events industry? What are the main challenges you face?
First, I don’t see myself as a leader to be honest. My goal is to inspire others with my knowledge and experiences, to convince them of the added value of influencer marketing, and to use it to its full potential. Our industry is not really ‘early-adaptor minded’ if I was to describe it in marketing terms.
To convince potential clients to invest in influencer marketing is like selling a different mindset. Why? Because the budget that suppliers are spending on exhibitions, folders, flyers, and other activities and events, you want them to invest it in influencer marketing. We are used to doing our sales and promotions in a certain way and I must convince the CFO/CEO to change. That’s a major shift and challenge! It’s a completely different mindset that requires time and lots of patience.
In that sense, I see myself as a disruptor, a change-maker. My drive is to make suppliers more visible in the market by telling their stories through experts and to get in touch with the right target audience.
What would be the best way to dismantle these challenges?
In Dutch we love expressions and the best one to describe it is: If one sheep leaps over the ditch, the rest will follow. The only thing they need is time. As we work on new cases we have more results and it’s easier to convince them from several proven track records. Influencer marketing is not yet common in the B2B market, but it will come, that’s for sure.
Besides, I need to keep my focus, be patient and keep on working hard to continue my mission together with my team. I like challenges, and this is a major one.
Influencer marketing is not yet common in the B2B market, but it will come, that’s for sure.
When measuring the success of an event, which are the most important KPIs to consider?
First, it depends on the strategy of the client. Influencer marketing is a part of the marketing strategy. Do you want to attract a new audience? Do you have a new service or product to sell, or are you opening a new hotel? Do you suffer from a ‘misperception’?
We start from there and investigate the client’s profile, we see what their target audience is. We start with our research, as you can read below in the overview. We set the goals and we follow-up, adjust them and modify them when needed during the campaign. At the end, we collect all the data in a report and we present the full overview.
Tell us 5 tips to pick the perfect influencer for a campaign/supplier.
- Don’t focus on the number of followers but on the quality of their network and your strategy. Therefore, every client has different needs, is looking for a different market, etc. It’s a thorough process to find and to match the right influencer with the client.
- Influencer marketing has endless options, you can measure the impact and adjust it any time you need to.
- Influencers are not those who call your hotel for a free stay and dinner! That’s typical for the B2C market, not in the B2B market.
- The MICE industry is a very particular niche industry and you must be an insider to be, or to become, an influencer. In other words, work only with experts!
- Influencer marketing is a collaboration between the influencer, the client and, in some cases, the agency. Only in this way will the campaign be a success.
Our influencers are not selected based on the size of their communities, but on the quality of their network and published content. Besides, we consider their knowledge, their background, their relationships and their contacts in the industry. It’s an intense process to find and connect with the right person, someone who can create and spread the story of a product or service in an authentic way, and I always tell this to potential clients. We prefer to avoid the word ‘influencer’, as it only creates confusion about their job -it really is! – and their credibility.
So, how does it work?
- Identify needs: we analyze the target audience, preferred channel, timeframe and desired outcomes,
- Scouting & selection: we cast a wide net and we search for beloved personalities and thought leaders in today’s social media platforms from in our database, based on the client’s requirements.
- Briefing: WOM sits down with both customer and influencer(s) to align and coordinate the creative content and brand communication.
- Planning: WOM proposes a communication plan with influencers and a strategy.
- Marketing: the influencer broadcasts branded communication through their channel while WOM follows up closely. During the entire process, we keep our client up to date, delivering insights into the influencer’s performance during each phase.
- Final report: after the influencer’s branded communication comes to an end, we share a final assessment with all available figures.
Which social network do you consider the greatest asset to help spread the word and broadcast an event? What other communications channels do you consider essential?
The world of social media is changing rapidly, and a lot of people get confused when selecting which channel they should use. First, you need to know what social network your current or potential audience is using. Starting from there, you don’t need to maintain all channels. Focus on one or two channels and maintain them, be consistent and professional. That’s already a lot of work.
What advice would you give someone taking their first steps in the meetings and events sector?
Networking is key, this is, getting involved in an association. For me, this has given me the opportunity to get in touch with many people in the international sector. Plus, in the mean time you have access to education. You should also get a mentor. It’s always great to have the knowledge of a senior professional, who can support you in every step of your career. Important: questions which may seem more personal, don’t be afraid to ask them!
Looking towards 2020, where would you like to see innovation within the sector?
If I look towards my business, it would be great if suppliers used the power of social media influencers to share their stories, be visible and be online.
Next, I’m fan of sustainability and diversity in the broad sense of the word. We need to care about our planet, we only have one! I hope we can move towards a more sustainable industry, and innovation plays a huge role here. Also, although many women are working in our industry, the CEOs and GMs are usual men. We need to change that, bring more equality into the entire industry. Working with people with different backgrounds, cultures and experiences is very enriching. Only in this way will we be able to move forward in our industry.
AssociationsSpace – join associations` talks on Twitter Spaces
Twitter Spaces? What’s that? Haven’t you heard of a new way to interact, engage, exchange knowledge and learn? Twitter Spaces is a new feature of Twitter, which allows live audio streaming with invited speakers. Basically, it works like Clubhouse, but on Twitter, and is way better!
Join AssociationsSpace on Twitter Spaces every Wednesday
We have created #AssociationsSpace on Twitter Spaces with Nadia Rubtsova where we talk about all things related to associations every Wednesday at 3 pm CET / 2 pm UK time. Nadia Rubtsova became a very special social audio emcee. During live audio shows, she will talk with eventsprofs, associations representatives, and meeting planners.
Interested in the MICE industry, associations, sustainable and safe events? Well, then it’s an absolute MUST to join our first and next episodes of the #AssociationsSpace.
You can listen to these short conversations during your coffee break or when you’re out for a walk. If you want to stay on top of trends and get new ideas for associations, tune in and participate in our discussions.
Our first episode will be hosted on May 26th at 3 pm CET on Twitter Spaces and hosted by Word of MICE Twitter profile. Follow Word of MICE and Nadia Rubtsova on Twitter. Don`t miss out because this is not a podcast. You will not be able to listen to Nadia’s talk with the guest later.
Today at 3pm CET we will host our first session here on @TwitterSpaces
#AssociationsSpace, where we’ll talk about #safeevents together with @NadiaRubtsova and @myhelsinki @antti_lumi
See you later ? #associations #association #event #eventmanagement #eventprofs pic.twitter.com/bf3Qv4NsSv— wordofmice (@wordofmice) May 26, 2021
Not sure what Twitter Spaces is and how it works? Log in to your Twitter account and simply tune in. We recommend using your mobile phone and Twitter mobile app. Test it, have fun, improve your digital skills and let`s talk about events, conferences, and associations.
Associations Space – 10 episodes
#1 Antti Lumiainen – Safe events
Associations Space” fire chat series starting on 26th May at 3pm CET in collaboration with Helsinki Marketing. Our first chat with Antti Lumiainen will be an amazing start to our new initiative. Nadia will be discussing SAFE EVENTS and what associations can expect when planning their in-person and hybrid events for the near future. The key takeaways will be:
- The top 3 tips the association event planners need to keep in mind when planning their safe in-person or hybrid events this year
- What support do cities provide for the association planners to guarantee safe events?
- How can the association planners be motivated to plan their in-person or hybrid events instead of virtual ones?
#2 Carolina Goradesky – The future of associations
Nadia`s guest for this episode is Carolina Goradesky, PMP, CMM – Events Manager at FIDI Global Alliance. Here’s what we’ll chat about:
- Which trends do we see in association’s events?
- What is the role of sustainability?
- 360 Community & engagement
Fancy a great conversation?
Join our weekly fire chat – the #AssociationsSpace, hosted by @wordofmice! Tomorrow at 3pm CET with @cgoradesky: what is the role of sustainability & 360 community.#eventprofs #associations #eventmanagement pic.twitter.com/BdxpRs0VYV— Nadia Rubtsova (@NadiaRubtsova) June 1, 2021
#3 Antti Lumiainen – Sustainability and associations
This time Nadia encourages you to grab your smartphien to talk about sustainability and associations together with her guest Antti Lumiainen from Helsinki Marketing. They will exchange our views on…
- What role do associations play in contributing to the economic and social sustainability and development of regions?
- What are the benefits of sustainable development for the associations?
- How can sustainable events help associations generate revenue and members’ engagement?
#4 Paula Blomster – Sustainable events and associations
t’s been a tough year for the entire event industry, but venues have been doing such an outstanding job to make sure that in-person events are possible in the nearest future. This is not only about safe events, but sustainable events which will be again our focus very soon.
A fascinating discussion with Paula Blomster, Congress Manager of one of the biggest Expo and Convention Centre in Finland- Messukeskus Helsinki, Expo and Convention Centre. Eventprofs will talk about:
- What is ISO 20121 standard and how can associations implement it in their events?
- The United Nations sustainable development goals.
- Explore new ways to reduce and offset event’s carbon footprint.
#5 Mariska Kesteloo – B2B Influencer marketing and associations
Events are the lifeblood for the associations… Events drive revenue, give exposure, and expand the membership base. So how can you create a bigger awareness for your association’s events? This episode will feature our very own Mariska Kesteloo, the founder of Word of MICE, an expert in B2B influencer marketing. What to expect?
- How can your association leverage the data and feedback from your events to foster growth and create more awareness?
- The secret sauce to creating a fear of missing out for your next event.
- How to use social media and influencers to create a buzz around your event?
#6 Ronald Lim – Virtual events and associations. Case study
360 attendees, 2 days, VIRTUAL Conference. This is the Pediatric Oncology Conference, that took place last week and that we will be discussing as a case study during next #AssociationsSpace chat on Twitter Spaces. This episode will feature Ronald Lim, DES, Business event strategist and technologist, Co-Founder of three companies: Creative Rock, Think Event, Conference People, and the official PCO for many Asia-based associations. What are we going to talk about with Ronald Lim?
- Fresh insights. Case study of Pediatric oncology conference
- Main learning points about running a virtual conference: do’s and don’ts
- Preparation for the association
#7 Usman Khan – Revenue generation and associations.
Which revenue streams can you develop for your association? Next Nadia`s Twitter Spaces guest will be Usman Khan, the former director of several Brussels-based NGOs. Currently Usman Khan is the Managing Director of Modus Europe Limited, a firm that provides consultancy services with a focus on health and social care. During #AssociationsSpace they will talk about?
- Revenue-generating activities: Ways to reach financial stability.
- How associations can create more opportunities?
- What are the challenges that associations are facing
#8 Charlotte Otten – Virtual events. Engagement and associations
Charlotte Otten, Head of Events at Solar Power Europe, is going to be next guest of Nadia`s#AssociationsSpace Twitter talk. Charlotte will share how they pivoted to virtual and were able to provide value to their members, partners and sponsors in a completely new environment.. Topics to be covered during the conversation:
- How did Solar Power Europe association pivot to virtual and how its stakeholder engagement strategy changed?
- What new value and benefits did they need to provide to keep members, partners, and sponsors engaged in virtual events?
Have you missed the talk with Charlotte? Below you can listen to May King Tsang`s recorded tips how to create FOMO effect and engagement for your events and confences.
? @wordofmice @NadiaRubtsova + guest speaker @charlottejotten
for your insights in hosting a virtual conference
Thx also @JaroslawMarciuk for inviting me to tune in today.
Here’s my thoughts on how to keep attendees, speakers + sponsors engaged virtually #AssociationSpace pic.twitter.com/tp2CsxdOBD
— maykingtea aka FOMO* Creator *FearOfMissingOut (@MayKingTea) July 14, 2021
#9 May King Tsang – FOMO creation and associations
Why do some events become extremely popular and others are barely “making it”? We’ll be chatting with May King Tsang – the top-level social media expert, the FOMO (Fear of Missing Out) creator and live content producer. May King Tsang (also known as MayKing Tea) has amazing experience on all topics related to social media, engagement, FOMO effect and online events. Follow May King on Twitter.
What Nadia and her special guest are going to talk about?
- How to bridge the gap between Social Media + PR for the associations’ events?
- How to engage association’s members on Social media?
? Thank you all for joining #AssociationsSpace @TwitterSpaces with @MayKingTea & @NadiaRubtsova today ?@nourtra00456201 @iamronlim @whatnyomidoes @antti_lumi @EmaPirciu @robert_dunsmore @BigSighMedia @ethanlee #eventprofs #associations #wordofmice @wordofmice pic.twitter.com/oE3Ln9TR5G
— Jaroslaw Marciuk ☕️ Call me Jaro (@JaroslawMarciuk) July 21, 2021
#10 Paulus Torkki – Members` engagement and associations
What do associations members want? Every single association is asking the same question and if not, they definitely should.
In her final #AssociationsSpace Nadia Rubtsova will be talking with Paulus Torkki – Associate Professor of Healthcare Operations Management at University of Helsinki, Partner at the Nordic Healthcare Group, and an active member of various organizations.
Here’s what is are going to be discussed on Twitter :
- How can the associations increase members’ active involvement?
- What (new) value should associations offer to stay attractive for the current and new members?
We would like to thank you all for joining 10 Associations Space talks on Twitter.
Associations Space on Twitter hosted by Word of MICE and brought to you in collaboration with Helsinki Marketing and very special #AssociationsSpace emcee Nadia Rubtsova – Helsinki MICE Ambassador 2020-2021. Posters created by Nadia.
IBTM World Trade Show from the perspective of the home based audience
November was the month that many of us have been waiting for in the MICE industry. After the last cancellations due to the pandemic situation, IMEX America in Las Vegas and IBTM World in Barcelona finally returned to their traditional form. Despite the restrictions, it’s hopeful to see that it was possible to organize both events, including exhibitors, visitors, hosted buyers and presentations and panel discussions on different stages during the events.
Please, do not forget about us
However, many people were unable to attend for various reasons. Due to quarantine, financial reasons, restrictions and other various reasons. I couldn’t go to Barcelona because I was diagnosed with Covid. I finished my isolation and I was eager to join you in Barcelona. But I had to resign because my doctor didn’t recommend that I travel. My option was to observe the IBTM 2021 via the Internet. Luckily Mariska could travel to Barcelona and she took actively part in IBTM World.
I expected that due to the pandemic the MICE industry would have learned their lessons, that the industry would change and broaden its horizons. I hoped that during these two years we would get to know the opportunities brought by the Internet, new platforms such as Hopin, Hubilo and Swapcard. I really hoped that the organizers and exhibitors would not forget the home based audience.
There has been so much talk lately about sustainability and inclusion in the MICE industry, technology can prevent exclusion like never before. You no longer have to fly to the other side of the world to attend an event and listen to a keynote speaker. Are these just empty slogans and boxes to be ticked off by events organizers?
I know we are all eagerly waiting for a return to normality and a return to the state of 2019, to IMEX and IBTM trade shows as we know them. The same way I see it, the organizers of the fair have forgotten about the equally wide and absent audience. Over the last two years, however, the world has changed a lot.
I am aware of the fact that the above mentioned trade show organizers have created virtual equivalents of the shows. Reed Exhibitions has created IBTM World Online 14-15 December this year and IBTM Wired (the second edition of which will take place 28 June – 1 July 2022). While IMEX has created a new online event IMEX Buzz Hub and maintains an active community. However, this is not the same as attending their most important traditional trade show online.
#IBTMworld social media listening
How could you participate online at IBTM this year? By watching the LIVE streaming on IBTM’s social media platforms that showed booths and short interviews with exhibitors. The longest live streaming lasted 17 minutes from the South American section of the fair. In addition, you could watch a video – a summary of each trade fair day – on Facebook. The video from the first day on Facebook had nearly 130,000 views and many other videos had tens of thousands of views. For comparison, it is worth seeing which results had the videos recorded in 2019. You can see the difference and the growing interest.
It is a pity that this year the organizers could not do a live stream of the speeches during the IBTM World Knowledge Programme on LinkedIn, Facebook, Youtube or any other platform. I missed the talks on Twitter Spaces or any other social audio platform. The longest live broadcast I managed to watch was “Re-connectem – Presentation of the Barcelona MICE Destination Support Programme” on Youtube VisitBarcelona which lasted 1,5 hours.
Was there another way to observe IBTM this year? I followed official hashtag #IBTMworld (plus #ibtm #ibtm2021 #ibtm21) and looked at what texts, photos and videos were published by trade fair participants and exhibitors. For every major event I create a project in Brand24 (social media listening tool) and listen to what is happening in the online sphere during the trade show. Congratulations to:
- Germany Convention Bureau
- Meet in Ireland
- Finland Convention Bureau
- France Convention Bureau
who were very active in sharing content from Fira Barcelona.
Quick & Sweet #IBTMworld Social Media Report. Social mentions 2426 (Twitter 1254, Instagram 583, Facebook 102), SM Reach 2.9 mln, AVE 441k $. Interested in detailed report? Send me DM. Created with @brand24 #wordofmice #eventprofs #destinationmarketing #socialmediamarketing pic.twitter.com/LpXiPtxCA8
— Jaroslaw Marciuk ☕️ call me Jaro (@JaroslawMarciuk) December 3, 2021
New technology and potential for the MICE industry
I have already spoken to many people about this topic, both attendees and those not present, and they have similar experiences. Unfortunately, the pandemic has picked up again and more restrictions are being introduced. I was curious to see how destinations have prepared for the new reality, whether they have presented suggestions at their booths as to how the technology could be used in future events. Unfortunately, I couldn’t find inspiring examples. In case I missed something, please do let me know.
Next to my opinion about IBTM, I have to admit that at least the organizers made some attempt to broadcast the fair. There is a bit different story with IMEX in Las Vegas, you could watch social media report official videos, IMEX Buzz on Swapcard and user generated content with hashtag #IMEX21.
I am really disappointed that the current technical possibilities are not used. This is for me another reason to believe that the organizers should not only follow the trends, but even create their own trends and inspire their own exhibitors to support and to use the technology.
I’m prepared to pay to get access to the online platforms where you could watch the presentations, the panel discussions and interact with other attendees. And more important to see each other, comment and ask questions. It’s about people, it’s about engagement, because we love to work with people.
I’m curious how our industry will evolve in 2022. Fingers crossed …
Influencer Marketing on Instagram with Phil Gonzalez
Welcome to the second series of the B2B Influencer Marketing Chat Series. And we are very happy to have you all in and to launch again another interesting series to talk about B2B Influencer Marketing. My name is Mariska Kesteloo. I’m the founder of Word of MICE. And for the second series, we have a new host involved and that is Jaro (Jaroslaw Marciuk).
Jaro: Hello, my name is Jaroslaw Marciuk. So now you may understand why Mariska calls me Jaro. I originally come from Poland and recent five years I lived in the UK, London, and Cambridge. I am in our MICE industry for about 20 years working in hotels, with convention bureaux and also the event industry. On the other hand and I also have experience in Social Media marketing. And that’s how I met our host today – Phil Gonzalez. How many years do we know each other? 10 years?
Phil: Yes, I think I think like 10 years when we started building Instagramers Community.
Mariska: Thank you so much for the introduction. Jaro, nice to have you as our host of the second series of the podcast. Now it is time to tell you more about Phil Gonzalez. Would you like to introduce yourself, Phil?
Who is Phil Gonzalez?
Hello, everybody I am Philippe Gonzalez. I am French but from a Spanish family. So I’m the son of immigrants who went to France in the 70ties. I used to live very close to Holland and Belgium because I studied in the north of France in a business school. I came back to Spain in 2000. I worked in the automotive industry as well. And like Jaro said, I was the last eight years of let’s say, working in a corporate area. I was working for EMC, the producers of “Breaking Bad”, “Mad Men” and “Walking Dead”. I was a digital manager for 24 TV channels in Spain and Latin America. For around 20 years I was also involved in the digital and internet blogs, social networks industry and promoting the series around the world.
The beginnings of Instagram in 2010
In 2010 I was developing my own application for a cooking channel in Spain. It was going very well. And one day a friend of mine told me “Oh, there is an application called Instagram. It’s very, very nice, it’s only one month old”. And I said, let’s try it out. I’m am a creative person, I like to paint and I like to take pictures and photography. When I first saw Instagram I said: “Wow, this app is going to change the world”. Check Phil`s profile on Instagram @philgonzalez.
I was never really fond of Twitter or Foursquare. I didn’t believe in many social networks that were launched. But when I saw Instagram, I had a sudden feeling, it was ground breaking. I was in my bed on a Sunday morning and looking at the Instagram app that was like two months or three months old. Instagram was launched on the 6th of October 2010.
Suddenly people started writing comments on my Instagram feed and asking questions. You know, they were writing – Can I be famous on Instagram? Or Can I be popular on Instagram? I replied and told them there are some rules they should follow. I had experience in marketing and I shared my knowledge of social networks. I was telling them – There are 10 rules you have to follow. And people replied in the comments on Instagram – Wow, it’s very interesting.
In December 2010 I said I have to make a website because people do not understand what Instagram is. For example, they were uploading pictures, and they were not putting any title. I said, OK I’m going to help people to understand the Instagram mobile app, and I started the first blog called instagramers.com. That was the real beginning of everything.
The Evolution of Influencers and Influencer Marketing
Mariska: People started addressing you for tips on how to become an influencer. Can you just share something about that evolution of influencers and influencer marketing?
Phil: It has been really a great period of my life, really. I knew a lot of famous bloggers and Twitter people in Spain. Before Instagram, the name influencer didn’t really exist. We used to say – wow, he is a famous guy from Twitter or this famous blogger, but there was not this name stamped like saying this influencer.
So in the early stage of Instagram, I remember in 2010 and 2011, when you used to have 1,000, 2,000 or 3,000 users, you were an Instagrammer with a lot of followers. And I remember at this stage I knew quite all the influencers, let’s say in the world. You had one guy in Germany Tomas Kay with 70,000 followers, you had one guy in New York. It was quite easy to know all the people that were like more than 50,000 followers. These people used to be promoted by Instagram, they were not famous. They were not photographers, nor celebrities. It was only people promoted by Instagram.
Instagram as an opportunity for creators
What happened to me in 2012? I suddenly entered into the 100 people Instagram List. I was among only 100 people suggested by Instagram to other new users. 100 people, like me, were part of this list on Instagram worldwide, we used to have 2000 or 3000 people following us every single day. Can you imagine? That was like crazy. So these people were the very first influencers. They were not famous, because until 2012 we didn’t have celebrities, musicians, or movie stars on the platform. The first famous person on Instagram was Snoop Dogg, the rapper.
In the beginning, Instagram was really creating these audience monsters, and Instagram was not thinking we are creating the future of influencing. They were just creating stars, unknown people who published cool pictures. Suddenly these people had opportunities.
It was like that, someone was asking me: – Phil, can you come to a party? – Phil, can you come on a trip? I had a lot of friends at this moment that were like, maybe 23-24 years old. And they said, wow, that’s an opportunity. I can maybe spend one year of my life traveling. That was the first step of influencing on Instagram – people who just go on exchange. So you come to our dinner for free, you go to an event of a big company.
And from the side of the company, it was funny. The companies and the agencies at this moment had no idea at all about marketing on Instagram. In the beginning, let’s say the agency called you, and they say – We saw your followers on Instagram. Do you want to come to our place?” That was like, quite strange, because everything was building itself without no strategy, really.
Instagram app as a successful start-up
Mariska: From your perspective was there a strategy behind Instagram? Because I think Instagram wanted it. Was it the purpose from the start, that they wanted to grow that big?
Phil: Probably it was, but it was not really clear. Instagram, when they started, they were only four people working there. And in less than two months, there were 10 employees. In December of 2010, there were already 8 million app users, and they were still only four people. So it was like crazy.
They didn’t have time, they didn’t have a blog. So there were a lot of things they were doing on Instagram. They were just flowing. You know, it was like a real start-up.
Twitter had a feature called Suggested List, so they copied Twitter. Remember that Kevin, the founder of Instagram, was an intern at Twitter. So what he did was a Twitter with pictures. He replicated Twitter, but with more importance to photography. So he said I want a Suggested List for people who are cool on Instagram. But at this moment, Instagram was not thinking that they are going to create the influence of the future.
And now it’s funny, because in 2020 what happens is that Instagram and Facebook say: How can we get money from all these monsters we created? Because we don’t take any commission, any money from all these people. For 10 years they created monsters that today don’t give any money to them. So they are going to try it and they are finding new ways to monetize these people.
Influencers incredible stories on Instagram
Mariska: It’s interesting how a small start-up evolved by creating a community by trial and error and suddenly, then it got acquired by a larger company (Facebook), and then suddenly the investor’s role comes with money and causes different issues.
You also told me, in our previous call that people who didn’t realize the word an influencer suddenly discovered the potential and options of Instagram. Even people like lawyers, fishermen, or farmers. Can you just share a practical example of a person who grew their community because of Instagram and perhaps now has an extra income out of Instagram?
Phil: Yes, well, I have plenty, plenty of examples. I will just show you three from Spain, with whom I am much in contact. For example, I have a friend, she’s a lawyer. Actually, she was a lawyer for a large company. She was doing international contracts and agreements. She also started writing blog posts about food, like a blogger. As a blogger, she was known on the internet, only with her recipes, etc. One day she started publishing photos on Instagram. I recommended her to start her own profile. Now she’s a TV chef for the most important cooking channel in Spain. She left her job as a lawyer. She’s very famous, she wrote her first book, etc.
I also have friends from Catalonia. One has 70,000 followers and another guy from Catalonia with 150,000 followers on Instagram. And these two guys are great case studies because one of them was a fisherman. Okay, he used to go very early in the morning to start to fish. And one day started to share pictures on his Instagram. He decided to leave his profession and he is a photographer.
The third example is a policeman from Tarragona in Spain. He came with me to Iceland, we went to Peru together. They have changed totally their life, like this.
They were not supposed to become influencers and traveling all their life. So there is a kind of people I met at the really beginning of Instagram that we worked with, were like very young, like 22, they didn’t really know what they were going to do with their life. And they suddenly look at Instagram as an opportunity for one or two years. Now most of them still live with big Instagram income.
How to become an Influencer on Instagram
Mariska: We are living now in 2020, where we are of course in totally different times. The industry and the majority of the people who are listening and joining us today are from the meetings and events industry. There’s a lot of opportunities also for our industry to share knowledge and to share those experiences of meetings and events. Do you have any piece of advice or anything that you’d like to share, particularly for Instagram or for people who are not saying that they want to become an influencer or people who share their expertise by sharing their stories on Instagram?
Phil: Yes. Well, first of all, what do I say to people who want to become an influencer? I say forget it. Okay. You don’t have to try to be an influencer. What you need to do on Instagram, and social networks, is enjoying what you do and do what you love. And maybe one day, luck will knock on your door.
But if you wake up every morning saying I want to become an influencer, you are going to start very, very fast. You will be doing a lot of noise, posting a lot, etc. And later you can say I don’t have any results for six months and you will leave it.
Mariska: Because you’re not passionate.
Phil: 99% of my friends who became influencers, were not seeking to be influential. It was just that their destiny cross their life, their talent exploded. So about the influencer industry, what I always say now is that sometimes we suffer a little bit of this weight of influencers, the ones that don’t have any talent. It’s just luck, etc.
So the first thing we have to remind to companies is that influencing is here and it’s really well based. There is a survey that demonstrates that more than 75% of the people believe a friend more than the advertising on TV. That’s definitely the rule you need to do influencer marketing, there is no doubt on this one.
Influencer Marketing on Instagram
There are a lot of companies that would like to start with influencer marketing on Instagram. I think they lost a lot of years to start with it. So there is no doubt we need to do influencer marketing. But the big question now is with whom are we working?
So at this moment, there are unfortunately still a lot of agencies which think like this and sometimes it happens to me. People call me and say – Phil, I want like five influencers with more than 300,000 followers.
And I ask them – That is your brief for the influencer marketing campaign on Instagram? What do you want, is like kilos, you need one kilo or two kilos of Instagramers?
No, what you need is: I want a guy specialized in technology with engagement on his Instagram that, when we do a campaign with him, I can be sure that I will have at least 200, 300 clicks, or 400 clicks on something related to software or to games or whatever.
Case study
I have a simple example of my last book. My Instagram case study. Last week, two big influencers talked about my books on their Instagram accounts. One of them is specialized in technology and he has a good engagement rate with his community. In one single day, I had 200 more followers on my Instagram profile, 100 visits to my Amazon website to buy the book. He was like 200,000 followers on Instagram.
The same day I had a post about my book on Instagram of a lifestyle girl with 600,000 followers. She didn’t brought me any followers at all. No visitors at all. Ok, maybe 10-15 people followed me. Probably her followers were not really interested in buying a book about Instagram, they were more interested in the way she wears.
Mariska: This is about relevance, that person really has a niche. That’s also what I say to encourage people to have a specific niche also within the meetings and event professionals. People have for example a focus on incentives or focus on corporate events. If you have really that niche and you will show also that you have the expertise and knowledge in that niche then people will take rely on you and people will follow you.
Influencer Marketing on LinkedIn
Phil: I want to share with you when we talk about B2B Influencer Marketing. I have been complaining about LinkedIn for many years, because I say LinkedIn is such a big opportunity. When Microsoft bought LinkedIn I thought – Microsoft please do something because the usability of LinkedIn was still very bad compared to Facebook. Usability is the key to the success of the platform. I don’t mean the meaning of the social network, the usability was quite bad.
But they have an opportunity in the future with Direct Messaging, Live Streaming on LinkedIn, and with Stories on LinkedIn. I will share the example. LinkedIn Story can be a blast. As a professional, I want to explain for example an event. It would be better to do storytelling on LinkedIn Stories and Live on LinkedIn than on Instagram. So I have a very good feeling about LinkedIn in the future.
Mariska : I also ask questions within our community, and I also see some feedback from people. They’re using LinkedIn Stories, but I think it’s still evolving and perhaps they’re a bit slower than Instagram. There is a potential out there for LinkedIn to use the stories as optimal as it should be. We will keep following the trends and developments of LinkedIn.
How brands can work with Influencers on Instagram
Jaro: How brands can work with influencers on Instagram, but from a B2B perspective. Do you have an example of that?
Phil: Well, that’s a good point. Most of the time, like I say the agencies are all the brands are thinking in B2C marketing. Sometimes big brands come to me and say: I want to do something with a large number of followers. I’m not interested in this target. I used to work with influencers with the smaller communities like 80,000 – 100,000 and very dedicated to their work.
Okay, so when the company calls me for B2B campaign I say, usually, these people have lower followers numbers. B2B Instagram influencer may have 3,000, 5,000 or 7,000 followers. I tell them you will not find easily an influencer talking about a specific subject in B2B marketing with a huge following on Instagram. I think it’s even better because these people that have like 5,000 or 10,000 may offer lower rates, Also these content creators are very interested when people and brands want to work with them. The only problem is that it’s complicated to find them. You have to really enter the communities talking about the topic and seeing what would be the best content creator or ambassador to promote your product or service.
Mariska: Trade shows and events are not taking place now and we work in a B2B environment. I think still there’s a huge potential for growth in B2B marketing. Do you think so too?
Phil: Of course. I think there is potential but the problem we have right now is that the people think influencer are people you’ve seen on the beach with a cocktail on the island. There’s still a wrong perception of Influencer Marketing on Instagram or other Social Media platforms.
And that is something we will have to fight against and you know that the name influencer has its meaning? A few days ago media said about a group of influencers who were having a party in Marbella without safe distancing during the COVID-19 era. So that’s the bad news. It’s not smart. So that’s something we have to fight against.
Mariska: We’re also fight against wrong perception of inflencers. Instead of a word an influencer we use also content creator. I also like the word industry experts. We want to educate and show positive case studies of influencer marketing campaigns.
You can continue reading our interview with Phil Gonzalez here: The future and trends on Instagram in 2021.
The second season of B2B Chat Series
Welcome to the B2B Influencer Marketing chat series where we talk about B2B influencer marketing in the world of MICE (Meetings, Incentives, Conferences and Events). We speak with people from all around the globe about the role, the meaning, impact and possibilities of B2B influencer marketing. You can listen to us and our guests on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts.
We launch the second season of B2B Influencer Marketing chat series in November 2020. Follow us on Eventbrite and signup for coming chats with influencers, CVB`s representatives and many other interesting guests from the MICE industry and Social Media world.
Sign up for our next episodes of B2B Influencer Marketing Chat Series: World of MICE – events on Eventbrite registration.
