October marked one year of working for Word of MICE, a company created by Mariska Kesteloo. I was pleasantly surprised because it was Mariska who reminded me of this anniversary by preparing a surprise for me and my wife Alicia.
It is an amazing time in my life. I would like to share a personal story with you about this extraordinary year and working together with Mariska. Especially since we haven’t met once in the whole year of our collaboration. All the meetings with Mariska took place online on Zoom and using other online tools but we got along very well and I learned what the Dutch sense of humour means.
The first step
A few years ago, when my wife Alicia and I were living in the UK, I noticed that Mariska was actively sharing her knowledge about B2B influencer marketing in the MICE industry.
I was eager to know more about this topic as she was the only person covering B2B influencer marketing in the MICE industry. I was also very interested in using social media to promote tourism and destinations. We met through LinkedIn and corresponded from time to time.
The first time (and interestingly the only time) we met in the real world was in London. It was in February 2019 at the International Confex trade show. I remember that I came to the fair in London from Cambridge and, apart from the fair, my main goal was to meet Mariska personally.
For many months Alicia and I lived in London right next to the Kensington Olympia exhibition centre, so it was also a sort of sentimental journey to where we used to live.
It was great to meet Mariska in person before the Confex started. We met for a coffee at the Hilton London Olympia Hotel. Later I found out that she is more of a tea person than a coffee person like me. During the meeting, I learned that she has knowledge and experience in B2B marketing, influencer collaborations and destination marketing. And next, she has the mindset and determination of an entrepreneur.
I also watched Mariska’s presentation on B2B influencer marketing in the MICE industry at Confex that day. Afterwards we had lunch together at Alborz on Kensington High Street. So many common topics of conversation! We could not stop talking!
What I didn’t know at the time was that this meeting was the start of our collaboration. That’s why I believe it’s always a good idea to connect with interesting people online and to meet them in person afterwards.
The start of our collaboration
Mariska invited me to join IBTM World 2019 in Barcelona, she created a collaboration with Reed Exhibitions and wanted me to be on stage to talk about influencer marketing and digital marketing.
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Unfortunately I couldn’t join her in Barcelona at that time. It was not an easy time for me and just a few months later the pandemic started. The MICE industry was gripped by an unprecedented crisis. It was also a time of learning new skills and creating new collaborations.
After we returned to Poland and settled in Warsaw, I noticed that Mariska started her own podcast series in early 2020 called the B2B Influencer Marketing Chat Series. I remember that I didn’t miss any of the 10 podcasts and was a very engaging and active participant. This was of course noticed by Mariska and Alessia di Raimondo, her co-host during the first series of the podcasts.
I had the opportunity to reconnect with people that I already knew personally (Henrik von Arnold, Amanda Thurlow). Next, it was a fantastic opportunity to meet new people, such as Giovanna Lucherini, Ivo Franschitz, Keith Jenkins, Dries de Geyter, Dennis Lippens, Sabrina Meyers, Julius Solaris and Rupa Shah. Listen to the interviews here Season 1 B2B Influencer Marketing Chat Series.
After this series Mariska asked if I was interested to work together on a small project with her, then another project followed. And in October 2020 she asked me if I would like to join Word of MICE as a team member to support her with the ongoing projects and business development. There could be only one answer, of course YES!
Picking up the fruits of our collaboration
Our year together at Word of MICE, I had an amazing time.
Let me be honest, it was a very difficult and tough period, because many of our friends in the tourism industry and the MICE industry lost their jobs, projects were put on hold, and companies went bankrupt. On the other hand it was the perfect time to create new opportunities and collaborations, using our creativity. And let’s not forget the increasing role of digital marketing and online events.
One of my first tasks was to participate and support the second season of the B2B Influencer Marketing Chat Series. I was delighted to be able to invite, among others, Phil Gonzalez from the Igers Community (Instagram fans and mobile photographers) to this series and to add a little Polish element in the form of interviews with Anna Górska from ICCA and Robert Szulc – live conversation from Ecuador about incentives.
We had engaging and amazing conversations with representatives of the MICE industry and how they and their companies survived during the pandemic. Through this project I met more people and we spoke to Carina Bauer, Tim Williams, Nyomi Rose, Horacio Caamano, Helen Moon, Maris Kuklis and Antti Lumiainen and Nadia Rubtsova. Listen to the interviews here Season 2 B2B Influencer Marketing Chat Series.
Working at Word of MICE is the perfect opportunity for me to establish new ways of collaborations and executing new B2B influencer marketing campaigns, with companies like, Singapore Tourism Board, Helsinki Marketing, InspireME from Monaco, Catalunya Convention Bureau or France Convention Bureau.
I had the opportunity to work on campaigns and projects with influencers and content creators such as Sabrina Meyers, Nadia Rubtsowa, Nyomi Rose, Meg Strahle, Sina Bunte and Jorge Bravo-Pratscher. Miek Egberts will always remain in my thoughts.
During the year I learned a lot about resilience, flexibility and overcoming personal challenges, because Mariska and myself, we have been through a very difficult and emotional rollercoaster.
Thank you Mariska
I’m glad we have a similar vision, we often discuss topics related with the MICE industry and destination marketing. We keep an eye on the development and new trends in digital marketing. Every month of work is a blessing during these times. For me even more because I can do what I love and I can work from home.
Thank you Mariska for involving me in every step of the company, sharing new ideas and projects and how to improve Word of MICE. Last year we ran, among many projects, LIVE on IBTM’s Instagram. And during another campaign we used the new Twitter Spaces broadcasting capabilities (#Associations Space) and the Hubilo platform for the online events (Singapore Spotlight Series #BizeventsSG).
As always Mariska repeats during conversations with clients “I am Dutch so I will say it straight”. This makes working with her always very transparent and focused on achieving goals. By the way, her Dutch sense of humour has a lot in common with the Polish one, which is probably also why we get along so well. Because it’s important to have fun in the work you do.
I really enjoy my work and the style that Mariska has introduced. Everything is always clear. Sometimes I have to sit many hours in front of the computer, and not everyone understands that the proverbial eight hours cannot be calculated. On the other hand, I also know that when something suddenly happens in my life, I can always count on her understanding and flexibility. I wish everyone such a business partner as Mariska.
If there’s one thing that I have to mention that was a challenge for me, is the fact that she pushes me to get out my comfort zone and encourages me to do the things I have rarely done this in my professional career. I know she’s right but I was not used to this.
I don’t know what the year 2022 will be like, but who knows? In times of a pandemic when our jobs and our loved ones’ health is so fragile, when it is difficult to predict what will happen in the MICE industry and in the entire world. Despite many unfavourable developments, I remain optimistic. There are many new opportunities and perspectives, and I am sure that together we will develop and strengthen the position of the Word of MICE.
I also know that Mariska is not only a good business partner, but I have gained a friendly soul. This is very valuable to me and I would never have thought that one meeting in London would bring so much good in my life. Again, you see now the value of 1 connection on LinkedIn.
Thank you for reading my story. I hope coming months will we very succesful for you.
Please, follow us on Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn and Youtube to see the latest updates from us.
Jaro
How to value your working experience as a freelance event planner?
I don’t need you to say that it’s been a huge challenge to remain positive in these unprecedented times. And moreover how to generate a continuous stream of revenue? Let us be straight forward, and perhaps I can say this being a Dutch, as we are known for our straightforward opinion, but it’s true right? Let’s face the reality. Let me inspire you sharing some tips you haven’t thought
Have you thought of going to the next level with your experience? And to become an industry expert and to value your knowledge and network?
Tell me more
Let me start with the beginning
Suppliers are struggling to get in touch with their target audience, people like you, event planners. In these very dynamic times it’s not easy to find the way, how to communicate, what is appropriate and what not? Which channels and which message? And in this complicated landscape in which the overall rules and regulations for our industry change continuously in each country.
And moreover to get through the noise of online messages and to find trustworthy messages, who are authentic and coming from true persons.
Suppliers are looking for support from you, event professionals who are experts in their field, passionate about organising events and who are close and daily in touch with their audience.
Wouldn’t it be interesting to get paid to do your passion? Yes, this is possible.
Let’s start with the definition B2B influencer marketing.
B2B influencer marketing is part of your marketing strategy by using industry experts who represent your target audience to get in touch or to stay in touch with your desired audience and bring insightful perspectives to the forefront, and build brand trust and credibility.
*Source TopRank Marketing
Therefore we need people like you!
What is the next step?
Let me be clear, you need to be an insider of the industry with at least 5 years working experience in the field. If you don’t have any working experience, you probably don’t have the right followers and moreover you are not trustworthy to share your opinion about an industry topic.
Next, the meetings & events industry is broad; we have all sorts of niches like incentives, corporate events, large conferences, events dedicated for small international associations. What I would like to say is, choose your niche and stick to it. Whatever you do, you are the expert in your field. And that’s how to create your authority, your unique followers and building up your community.
What can you do?
Much more than you think. First of all you know what event professionals, the organisers need, what makes you decide to read the article or to fill in a poll? On which channels are you active and what do you see as trends and evolving in your community? Next, are you active in an industry association? Perhaps you could share your experiences in a blog, or live during an event or take part in a panel discussion during an industry event.
Next, you are daily in touch with your audience, you know their needs, pain points and challenges. Perhaps you could propose to do a trial with one of the new upcoming features? And don’t forget the upcoming trends for 2022, social audio, sustainability and hybrid events are here to stay.
Strategy is key
We see that strategy is sometimes an obstacle, how to create and to write a strategy for a potential client or collaboration. Let me be honest, it’s a challenge for everyone nowadays as it’s very difficult to predict what’s going to happen.
But if you write a proposal, you need to replace yourself in the minds of the clients. What do they need, what are their expectations? Do research and dive into the world of the world wide web where you can find lots of interesting insights about your client. And the more indepth you do your research, or perhaps you know the client, the better you can write a proposal. Or just ask for more details and information.
And it’s not from one day to another that magic will happen, therefore B2B influencer marketing is a combination of online and offline activities supporting the strategy of the client. Which is in alignment with your values and vision.
We have a bridge to gap
What I have noticed is that industry experts come up with the most exciting ideas but that’s not always a fit for the client, despite it will do good or they might need it. Sometimes it’s just a bridge too far. Therefore do your research, are you working with a corporate client with a commercial purpose or a convention bureau fully supported by the government? These are two worlds apart.
Compensation
Always a challenge but try to be reasonable. How much time does it take to create a post, to publish it, and to analyze and to collect the data? And don’t forget to include the calls with your client and follow-up emails. Count the hours that you need to accomplish these tasks. Don’t underprize yourself, try to be reasonable.
More inspiration and information you can find it here https://www.wordofmice.com/influencer-marketing-proposal-brands
Good luck and see you soon!
MICE regards,
Mariska
How associations can benefit from social media? – the interview with Anna Gorska
Welcome to the second edition of the B2B influencer marketing chat series. Today, we have a great guest from ICCA and associations world in our podcast. Let`s dive into the discussion with Anna Gorska and find out how international associations can benefit from social media and marketing.
Who is Anna Gorska
Anna Gorska has been involved in the meetings industry for over 20 years. Since May 2019 she is part of the Advisory Board in the leading Polish association called PCO Symposium Cracoviense, where she is responsible for relations with the international associations. In March 2019 Anna became the Vice President of the SKKP Polish Conference & Congress Association. She is a passionate lecturer at universities promoting the importance of the meetings industry to the young generation. In October 2020 she was elected as a Board member for ICCA (International Congress and Convention Association). Anna was also chairing the ICCA Central European Chapter for 6 years.
We talked with Anna Gorska about:
- News from the World; an initiative that was created during the lockdown to keep in touch with associations.
- The 59th ICCA Congress that was held in November 2020 and gathered more than 1500 participants online.
- The role of the different social media channels; why Facebook is more popular in Poland than LinkedIn for associations?
Have you missed the live episode with Anna Gorska?
In case you missed our live session with Anna Gorska, listen to our conversation on your favorite podcast channel. We uploaded the whole interview to the following podcast channels:
Do you prefer reading over listening? You can read most of our conversation with Anna Górska below. Enjoy listening and reading.
59th ICCA Congress 2020
Mariska: It`s clear from your CV and from your background that you have a huge passion for the MICE industry. So I can say that you are true advisor or ambassador and perhaps even better said, a true influencer for the destination of Poland. I suppose the majority of the readers know ICCA, but can you share something about your role in ICCA and also about the ICCA Congress that took place in 2020? Can you share any insights why this congress was also so special?
Anna: Yes, of course. ICCA means International Conference and Congress Association. Right now, ICCA has over 1000 members from all over the world. In my opinion it is the most important organisation dealing with the meetings industry in the world right now. ICCA organises its’ congress every year and it takes place in a different part of the world every year. And in fact, every year, many cities try to bid for it to be the host of this event, because it’s a very prestigious event. So every year ICCA Congress gathers up to 1000 people from the meetings industry and from the top management of the members.
This year, the title of the congress was “Transforming Events Together“. It was scheduled to take place in Kaohsiung in Taiwan. But due to the COVID, the Board of ICCA decided to organse it for the first time ever, in a different form, in a hybrid format. So besides Kaohsiung, there were seven other regional hubs chosen in a different parts of the world, where the members could meet face to face. For example, in Europe, we had hubs in Luxembourg, and Malaga. The hubs were chosen so that delegates from all over the world didn’t have to travel to Asia, and could choose the nearest hub to their destination.
The attendees also had option to participate virtually. And thanks to that, the event hit a record number of attendees. There were 1500 participants.
ICCA also offered a six week educational program before the actual start of the congress. So for the registered participants, there were sessions every day on the topics like storytelling, macro and micro trends. And the sessions are still available on demand until the end of the 2020. So I think it’s the future of the meetings – the hybrid way, because it gives you an opportunity to participate either face to face or virtually, in case when you don’t have time, money or other sources to travel far away.
The 2021 ICCA Congress wil be held Cartagena, Colombia. So we all hope that we will be able to travel freely until November 2021.
Challenges for associations in the era of Covid-19
Mariska: You’re also very passionate about education. You were telling also in your introduction that you’re teaching students, so I think education is very important also for the ICCA community. So I hope that there will be more education about associations, about bidding or any other related topics. So I think it’s a great way forward and I’m really curious how the conference or in what way the ICCA congress in 2021 will take place in South America in Cartagena.
You are very passionate about associations. Associations in our industry are also known as an audience that is difficult to reach, difficult to get in touch with. You have a lot of experience about the association market. Can you give any insights about this particular market, about this particular audience?
Anna: Yes. First of all, I think that for many associations the annual congress is the main source of their income. So, during the COVID-19 pandemic crisis, when the event has to be canceled, or postponed, it’s a problem for the association. In many cases, the leaders of the associations work voluntarily. So they have their own business issues to deal with, and it’s hard to concentrate for them on the associations market. I think this is the biggest challenge all associations are facing now.
And of course, uncertainty is the main problem, we don’t know when we’ll be able to meet face to face again, and travel again freely. So this is also a very big challenge. Others are like remote work and organise virtual meetings for associations. Others do not have experience and digital skills. So I think it would be reasonable for them outsource this and use sometimes experience of the PCOs to help them organise virtual meetings.
In my opinion, right now, the most important is to stay connected with the members, and to offer them an open communication and just examine their needs. Just ask them what they need right now. Because all of our priorities have changed. And what was good for the members last year, probably is not good right now. We need to learn to adopt to the members needs. I think it’s the most important right now for all national, for medical and industry associations.
An academy for meeting planners and event professionals
Mariska: I think you’re absolutely right, associations have a very fragile structure. And like you said, they’re based on volunteers, those volunteers perhaps may run their own company or employees. Also there has a lot of things changed, we’re now working from home, perhaps also personal situations have changed. And your working environment has changed. So we are facing a lot of challenges, of course, and it has a huge effect on the on the quality and also on the role of associations.
And the second, what you mentioned is the online experience. Yes, if you are working as a volunteer in an association, that doesn’t mean that you’re directly an online event strategist or online event planner. And also, as we’re living such an ever changing environment, what we need now today is perhaps different than we would need in a week or in a month’s time. So it is really a very, very challenging, not only for us, and as we’re speaking here, a very challenging world. But of course, yeah, an ever changing environment. And you say you reach out to members, you get the advice to reach out to your members. And just pick up the phone and call them or send them a message. Do you have any other advice? How can you stay in touch with your members or people that are related or connected with associations?
Anna: I can give you an example of the project we introduced in our Polish Conference and Congress Association (SKKP). The main goal of SKKP is to educate the members. And last year we introduced a project called SKKP Academy.
SKKP News from the World
But, of course in March this year, it was obvious that we could not organise any face to face trainings or educational products. So we introduced something new, the project called SKKP News from the World. It is a series of articles in which we write about case studies, reports, new promotional campaigns, showing how the world is reacting on this unusual and unexpected situation. And we make it available to our members and to other MICE industry representatives in Poland. The goal was to help the members to deal with an unexpected crisis by showing them the good examples from the world. Because we all know that information is crucial to conduct right decisions and to create recovery plans. It also allows members to react quickly and to implement changes in their strategies.
The project was very simple, the articles were spread throughout the social media and received a very positive feedback. The Polish MICE industry media also helped us and they distributed articles through their channels on social media, and in their newsletters. The project was also one of the finalists in the international awards, organised by association executives. We know that MICE professionals read it, because I can see how they use it in their campaigns, how they use it when they speak to others, so it’s very positive for us. And it motivates me even more. And I decided to continue the project also next year, and keep on writing the articles.
Mariska: Could you please share with us, because you’re saying you’re sharing case studies or articles. Were these articles also about associations and case studies from MICE companies? Can you say something about the type of content that you shared within that new initiative?
Anna: Yes, we shared the reports that appeared in the MICE industry. For example we distributed the reports issued by ICCA, or the other associations. And we also wrote about good positive examples of the different campaigns. I can share an example of the campaign in England, it’s called, ‘It’s time to meet again‘. During the campaign the employees of the industry took pictures with their smartphones, in their workplaces. And then they share it through their own social media channels. So to show that positive and personal way of how to organise event in their region.
Mariska: This is important for anyone who’s creating a new initiative or building up a community. So you really concentrate on content from the industry, from the meetings and events industry, and to share it with your members. You didn’t share any information from outside the meeting and events industry?
Anna: No, we share mainly information of the meetings industry. We read articles in the international newspapers, social media, different channels, and we choose what in our opinion could be important.
How to share news with your audience?
Mariska: You know the challenges of your audience, that you were the right person to choose the right articles that were relevant or could be informative for your audience. Also, how did you share those articles with your audience? Did you create a newsletter? Did you create a company page on Facebook? Or what platform did you use, and how frequently did you share the news with your audience?
Anna: Okay, so first, we started to write articles twice a week. And right now, I write articles once a week. We have created the webpage of SKKP section called ‘News of the world’. Other than that I posted on my personal Facebook profile and LinkedIn profile. As SKKP we also distributed the content on our Facebook page. And as I can see the others also share our articles on their personal profiles. The Polish MICE media such as: Meeting Planner, Think MICE and MICE Poland, also joined our initiative. So all these actions give an opportunity for the wider audience to read about it.
There is so much information and not many people have the time to read it all.So this is helpful as that what we choose, of course, from our point of view, what is really important, and share it, so they the have real knowledge all in one place.
Facebook or LinkedIn?
Mariska: Yeah, but I think it’s important because you have so many years of experience in the industry. You know what your audience needs, and they trust you as a person. So therefore, I think you are the right person to choose that information and to share it because you are authentic, you are trustworthy, and I would say the influencer within the world of associations. And going back, because you shared the content also on your private channels and on your Facebook and on your LinkedIn. And what is then your preferred channel, if you would choose between LinkedIn and Facebook? Or where did you get more reactions on Facebook or on the LinkedIn page?
Anna: Well definitely on Facebook, we get more reactions. And I use my personal Facebook profile only for business related matters. You know, I don’t use it for private reasons. I mean sometimes I do, but only when I want to promote the destination Poland. So I don’t show the birthdays of my children. I see that in Poland, Facebook, at least for the industry associations as MPI Poland Chapter, SKKP, or SITE Poland, is used more frequently than LinkedIn. And although I also share the articles on the LinkedIn, I see much more reaction on Facebook, and also much more shares on Facebook than on LinkedIn. I don’t know why, it shoold be the opposite page.
Mariska: Is it also to do something, for example, with cultural differences, or perhaps with the preferences of your audiences, and perhaps associations in Poland, are more active on Facebook instead of LinkedIn?
Anna: I think that Polish associations are more active on Facebook than LinkedIn. And just my friends from Facebook and LinkedIn, they’re more active on Facebook, I can see it and I’m not sure why. Maybe it’s a Polish thing. Maybe not.
Choose the right channel to communicate with your audience
Mariska: Yes, can be. But it’s important to know because we’ve spoken with many people, during our live webinars with different people from around the world. And a lot of people underestimate the cultural differences that are in each country exists. And also the rules and regulations, of course, but also cultural differences that in some countries. For example, Twitter is much more used and common in the UK, than it would be for example, in the Netherlands, although we use Twitter, but it’s not our place to go to. And, and sometimes it also depends on the industry. So it’s good to know if I would work for a Polish association I would know that I would invest more time and effort in Facebook than on LinkedIn.
Anna: I think it would be a good idea to do that. And I know you are involved in so many social channels and profiles, you have so many of them, especially Jaro . But me personally, I use only two of them only Facebook and LinkedIn because I just don’t have time. And you know, it’s not so easy to post the right content on social media, you have to think about it. And about the content and it just takes time. So I chose to have only two of them.
Mariska: I think it’s a very wise decision to only choose one or two platforms, maintain those and build the community then to have five or six profiles, where you don’t have the time. My preference is LinkedIn. For some people, for Jaro, of course, it’s Instagram. I think it’s a very wise decision to focus only on one or two social media channels.
Associations in 2021
Mariska: Is there anything else that you would like to share with us concerning associations, or any predictions or suggestions that you would like to share with us for 2021?
Anna: Yes, maybe two things, I would like to encourage everyone to get involved in associations. I know, it takes time. But it also gives you a very positive things, and to do something good for the others. That’s why I’m so passionate about associations. And that’s why I get involved in working with them.
Let`s talk about predictions, I think the meetings in the future will be smaller. And unfortunately, because a big part of them will be organised virtually. We will need a lot of time to feel safe to travel again, including long distances. The meetings will be smaller, and probably more local, and then regional. And we need to learn. That’s why I think we need to learn new digital skills, to be able to move freely in the virtual world.
This would be my advice, to learn new skills, and I’m also speaking about myself, I need to be more proficient in a virtual world. It’s not easy, but I think what we will learn now, it will give us fruits for the future.
Mariska: Indeed, I think you’re absolutely right. And also thanks for your advice to get involved in associations. I always have been very involved in MPI, which also gave me a lot of confidence. And from my perspective, I totally agree with you, Anna. I think for a lot of people has been a learning curve, not only for event planners, but I think also for a lot of other industries how to deal with online meetings, online conferences, and anything else.
Anna: Well, I think all of us are influencers in some way. And especially now when we all use social media and we live in an online world. So my final remark would be just to be cautious what you post on your social media.
Mariska: I think it’s a very good piece of advice for all of us. Indeed, think twice before you post something on social media because you might harm your reputation amongst your followers. So thank you very much, Anna, for sharing your insights and passion about meetings and events industry.
Connect with Anna on LinkedIn and Facebook.
How to measure influence on social media the interview with Tim Williams
Welcome to the second edition of the B2B influencer marketing chat series. Today, we have a great guest in our podcast.
Who is Tim Williams
Tim Williams is the CEO of Onalytica, an Influencer Marketing company that provides Influencer Relationship Management software and supporting professional services. Onalytica provides influence marketing software, the company focuses on advocacy. They love to be able to integrate employer advocacy and influencer advocacy for brands. Their mission as a software provider and a vendor in this space is to connect brands with influencer communities. Company loves the development of community around certain topics, they focus on B2B globally.
Have you missed the live episode with Tim?
In case you missed our live session with Tim Williams, listen to our conversation on your favorite podcast channel. We uploaded the whole interview to the following podcast channels:
Do you prefer reading over listening? You can read most of our conversation with Tim Williams below. Enjoy listening and reading.
The current state and future of B2B influencer marketing
Mariska: I’m really happy that we have the ability to speak. We would like to discuss the report The current state and future of B2B influencer marketing, especially from an influencer perspective. Before we dive into the outcome of the report, can you share why have you done this report?
Tim: So we always love carrying out research, it just enables us to build so many relationships within the industry. And you find out so many wonderful things about the state of the industry. We have previously done a state of the industry report for B2B marketing around marketers and communications professionals.
And since Top Rank marketing did a great report a couple of months back on that, we thought well, why don’t we ask the influencers, because the influencers of the marketing gold that brands are leveraging to get their messages out there. And the industry is maturing, as you very well know, there are wonderful successes, there’s also mixed results within the industry as the industry is evolving and maturing.
So part of the success is how brands connect with the influencers, and the influencers have strong opinions about how they should be reached out to, how they want to work with brands, whether their opinion gets listened as part of the brief and how they work on an ongoing basis and the payment, how the payment works and all of the sort of a ministerial and sort of transaction part of the process, like, matter as well.
So we just thought, we can deliver most value by showing brands, what influencers really care about and how they want to show up. Then you’ve got both, the brands and the influencers coming together to achieve what the best results are going forward.
Mariska: It was really interesting also that you really want to focus on influencers part which, I think, is really really important. Also to bring influencer marketing, I would say, to the next level. Can you share three important outcomes and three remarkable outcomes that you said ‘okay, this is, perhaps, something that we already knew, but it confirms. Or something that, really, would surprise you with the outcome of the report.
Influencer marketing as a collaborative process
Tim: Always keep in mind that the ‘always on’ mentality rather than ‘one off’ campaigns, so we, there’s a stat in there that 89% of influencers who work for brands on a retainer basis, deem their campaigns to be very successful. So obviously, the influencers, when brands invest in them on a longer term basis, they give a lot more to brands. And so that was very, it was what we already believed, but it was just really, really strong to come through from the influencer research report.
The other thing that was interesting is the quality of outreach and research, there’s still a lot of brands that are not doing their research, and just treating influencers like promotional mouthpieces, and saying, Can you amplify this piece of content? Or I know you’re influential in this area? Could you share this report? And that’s really something that we’re trying to stamp out as the industry.
So 93% of influencers who think brands do a lot of research, right, that outreach is good, or very good. As a brand, you need to put in the effort to get to know someone before asking them to do a favor or was trying to build a relationship as part of a like a paid engagement. That was really interesting.
The other part was looking at influencer marketing as a collaborative process. So it’s not a brief that brands just hand to the influencers except or not. It’s about helping influencers to shape the brief and relaxing a bit of control as a brand to be able to integrate influencers beliefs, and ideas on how you can create the most inspiring content for your target audience. I think those are the three interesting points.
Mariska: A lot of people see influencers not as humans is it not also about creating a human relationship between the influencer and the brand. Also the mutual respect and mutual interest and expertise? Because I see there is a huge gap between what the brand wants and what the influencer wants. And despite it, we also send out a brief it’s, you see, there’s still a huge gap to bridge between the influencer marketing and the brands. And I think if brands would approach influencers more in a human way if they would work with with employees, I think there is, from my perspective, there is still a lot of work to do.
Tim: I think the the human centered approach goes a long way. And I think the when you’re in big organisations, and you’re in a marketing department, and you have strict targets to hit, and you’re not really, you’re seeing influencers, like a paid media opportunity, then obviously the mindset is wrong. And, and that’s one of the things I think is interesting going to the trends of influencer marketing, that I see that the early adoption phase is over.
I know a lot of people that have influencer marketing, their job title, they have global roles, and you know, they’ve honed their industry and, and their skills extremely well. And they’re working with influencers. But now this approach has become mainstream there a lot of people that have never done this before that it might be 5% of their roles.
And they don’t feel that they have the time to research influencers or to and and maybe the human approach gets lost a bit because they find it very time consuming to manage these influencer relationships. So I think we’re at that tipping point where it becomes a mainstream tactic. And organizations will then recruit differently and job roles in the future, you know marketing director would have influencer marketing maybe as 25% of their remit. So I think it’s just as a result of the evolution of the industry, but I completely agree with you.
Influencer`s audience size is becoming less and less important
Mariska: I hope that B2B influencer marketing will become more mature in the upcoming years. And I would love to have your vision on that. And anything else that you would like to share about the outcome of the report that you have done or even from, also, from your colleagues, because I know also, this is, of course, a team effort that you’ve done. Quite a lot of people have worked on the report. Any other outcomes that you would like to share from from the report?
Tim: First of all, I should say that Alicia Russell (VP for Global Marketing at Onalytica) was behind the influencer research report, assisted by Alistair Wheate (Senior Solutions Strategist at Brandwatch), who helped out with a lot of the influencer relations, and Joe Fields (Head of Influencer Marketing at Onalytica) as well in the team. So all credit to them for getting the report out.
I think the one of the other interesting things is that the influencers, audience size is becoming less and less important. I think a lot of brands have chased the same influencers who have maybe 150-200 thousand followers in the B2B world. And you know, when you have 50 brands chasing after the same 30 people in tech, for example, that bubble is always going to burst. And so I think a lot of the more savvy marketers are looking for people with expertise. And they’re looking for industry experts that don’t call themselves influencers.
So I think that the how we describe influencers is really, really important. We talk about your professional influencers or social media amplifiers as those people that do it for a living, but we also talk about industry experts, industry key opinion leaders, content creators, independent analysts, different type of people that are influential, influential experts, but they’re just not describing themselves as influencers. And I think that’s a really important trend.
Everyone is an influencer
Mariska: Really important the way you say the word influencer because we also have a hate-love relationship with the word influencer, if I can say, but if I don’t mention that word influencer marketing that people don’t understand what I do, so I mentioned it for people to give them a direction, but still the word, industry expert, content creator, thought leader, I think we still have to come up with a name, which resonates with the job that they do. Because influencer, everyone is an influencer, if you have social connections or not. So I think, therefore we need to be careful perhaps even go away from the word influencer marketing and be on a B2B level.
Tim: Exactly I couldn’t agree more, we feel that Onalytica as a technology vendor in the space, we feel we have a responsibility to help that evolution. So we’ve got the persona classification, like a content creator or an independent analyst. But then there’s also the roles they could be an academic researcher, or they could be a data scientist, they could be a developer, they could be an entrepreneur. And then they’ve got location, they’ve got like quantitative data, qualitative data, and that all forms part of a person of who they are.
The category is influencers but we don’t like the word ‘influencer’ by itself. But it’s useful to have a term for the industry that everyone references, we also call an influencer as an internal influencer, it could be an employee, a brand employee. So they’re just people. But they are influential experts for us. So that’s probably our best generic term for all the people that we hold in our database.
Mariska: Yeah, indeed. But I think, like you said, I also feel that it’s a duty and our role and our responsibility to also to get more recognition for influencers in general. And again, together with a human approach to get more awareness for what is actually B2B influencer marketing, because a lot of people and if I speak with clients, it was especially in the beginning, I noticed now that perception of influencers, luckily is changing. But a lot of people don’t see them as humans, they just want to see them as a sort of selling machine. And they don’t always see the long term perspective. Luckily, that has changed also, I think also with a pandemic. But also before I saw a change of perception in general for influencers.
Tim: Exactly. Well, I think it’s testament to some of the work that you do at Word of MICE as well. I mean, you’re very vocal about that and I think there’s a community of B2B influencer marketing practitioners that are helping change this. So I think it’ll take a couple of years. But I think we’re well on the way.
The impact of B2B influencer marketing
Mariska: It’s interesting also to share your vision about the future of B2B influencer marketing and also talking about the impact of B2B influencer marketing. Because, I think, still a lot of people underestimate what you can get out of the campaign on a B2B level. So can you share some insights outside of the report, in general, the impact of B2B influencer marketing, because I think that’s a huge underestimated value part of the campaign.
Tim: From working with lots of global enterprise brands, the results that we see from influencer marketing is, if we look at brand awareness first and then demand generation, as the main two goals, we see up to 30 times awareness and engagement on social content when influencers have generated the content versus brand generated content.
So we see a massive increase in awareness engagement, we also qualitatively see an increase in the quality of content and they inspire conversations, there’s a very different flavor to the content. So that’s on the awareness, engagement front, on the demand generation, if you have a webinar with an external influencer, and we’re seeing up to five times demand generation, so five times generation of leads, for example. Sometimes it’s 50% more, sometimes it’s twice as much, three times, but it’s up to five times that we see with the external influencer voice. So wonderful results. You’re compared to the benchmarks that the brands have. And obviously, there’s lots of factors in determining how successful those particular campaigns are.
New roles for influencers
Mariska: I think still a lot of people underestimate the impact of a B2B influencer marketing campaign and getting them. After you’ve done the report, what is your personal also seeing, of course, the pandemic, which had a huge impact on our personal and professional lives, how is now, have your visions have changed about B2B influencer marketing for the future?
Tim: It’s a good question. From our research, it showed that there was, the influencers are saying that they’ve got the same amount of work, or more. I mean, a few of them who were speaking at lots of events obviously, had to adapt their offering very, very quickly. And that was important. So I know people that have really upskilled themselves on the lighting on the recording on being MC (emcee) at events. And you know, people like Brian Fanzo, for example, have made a business out of like showing their journey and how they’ve adapted and they’ve had to make some big changes.
But overall, the influencer work has increased. I mean, the brands have no physical events, no way in which they can network or drive leads, they have, you know, everything is digital selling. And, you know, this is, I think, just accelerated the trend that we were already seeing. So, our strategy in Onalytica hasn’t changed. I think we’ve just been, I mean, from a personal strategy, we’ve just been working more with tech firms because they were the ones that were trying to capitalize on this opportunity. Whereas maybe some other firms in travel or hospitality or something like that, were really just trying to survive as businesses so they just shut down a lot of spending around advertising and marketing. So I think that they will come back.
But I think in the B2B areas of tech, finance, healthcare, the areas that are really booming and haven’t really seen much, much of a hit in terms of their revenues, it’s been increasing if anything.
New opportunities for influencers in the MICE industry
Mariska: Okay, well interesting to see of course, we coming from the hospitality mixing events industry, we see that the industry of course, has been hugely hit. And 2021 is not looking very bright, unfortunately. Despite that our strategy has slightly changed and we see there’s a huge support and I’m focusing also on social media but despite there is still a demand for B2B influencer marketing because like you said, we are the ones creating the events and you don’t have the possibility to meet, or to have that face to face interactions with your clients. So therefore, I think B2B influencer marketing is a great way to do webinars to do interviews, podcasts, online panel discussions, online events, I mean, or Instagram stories, LinkedIn live, we have so many opportunities to stay in touch with your audience. And that using influencers, I think it’s only a great value. And I think some ways epidemic has pushed forward some companies to think differently than it would have thought before. So I see there is also positive change for the future for B2B.
Tim: I would agree with that. And a lot of the marquee events that didn’t happen or just couldn’t deliver the same results. I think we are seeing virtual content series with influencers being something like a thought leadership plane, which might be across two or three months, where they have 10 different video series with one influencer per video series, or using the same influencer for multiple ones and integrating their subject matter experts internally as a good way of driving the attention and awareness and just creating really good content.
Let`s talk about data and metrics
Mariska: We think that data still plays a huge underestimated role in many, many industries. How do you think that we can improve the role of data? And also in combination with the current situation with the pandemic?
Tim: Data is at the heart of everything that we do. I think it’s a really difficult and challenging area for companies, because marketers and communications professionals really struggle with measurement. And I think there’s a number of different ways to look at this. I think it’s, if we start with the influencers, the influencers need to be able to measure their impact on things that brands care about. So if you have a few posts, and you get 50 likes or 60 likes, then they need to translate that into something that the brand can make a business case for internally. So the influencers need to improve their own measurement. And they also need to do a better job at showing how well they perform compared to their competitors.
Measure the impact of influencers on social media
That could be other influencers in the community that people could choose to work with. So we’re trying to help the influencers, measure their impact on LinkedIn, and Twitter to take two channels, but also tried to have some proxy for offline influence as well, which is really difficult, but there are some solutions there. So I think that’s how the influencers can understand their own value and bring that as their kind of profile showcase or media kit, then there’s having a passion for ensuring that they deliver for the brand.
So once they’ve created the content, if that’s what the brief is to ask whether the brand is happy that they’ve hit their targets, from working with them, I think the feedback from brands is that not many influencers, asked those questions, and to be able to like make sure they deliver that return, and the ones that do, stand out. So I think that’s from the influencers standpoint.
I think from the marketers standpoint, then they need to have a benchmark to understand how well they’re doing, you know, on day one, and what good looks like and then to be able to measure the uplift when they’re working with influencers. So they can start translating that into what senior management really care about. And quite often, the benchmark is not done before. So there’s some really good results. But senior management don’t really know what good looks like. And it can’t just be social media metrics. So I think the benchmark is important, I think then be able to get influencer marketing onto the CMO scorecard.
So there’s one metric that can really define the value of influencer marketing, whether that’s reach engagement, brand, share voice, a combination of those, like an influencer index, I think that needs a lot of thought. And I suppose my last point on measurement is it’s really important to connect all of the metrics together.
Challengers in B2B influencer marketing
I know that Christopher Penn talks a lot about this. He’s an analytics expert in the US, I respect hugely in this domain. And I think he’s right that you need to connect a number of metrics together. So you have the initial metrics on social media to show how well the content might have landed. But then you need to connect the metrics, it could be referral site traffic, it could be leads, it could be, then the conversion of those compared to other demand Gen tactics that you have. And to be able to integrate this as a strategy, it has to be connected to the other ways in which you measure things.
So I think that area has a long way to go, I think it’s getting better. But the more results influencer marketing gets, the more visibility, it’ll get on the senior management, the more that the spotlight will shine upon it, the more the return on the campaigns will be asked for by people’s managers, and the more measurement will improve as a result of those questions. So I think it will just take the next years to really enable data and analytics to be at the forefront of this. And, yeah, I am very passionate about data and analytics. So I think there’s multiple different angles. So the people that do influence marketing are not necessarily measurement specialists. I think it’s really challenging area.
Do you measure results?
Mariska: Yeah, this is what I want to say, because we sometimes also struggle that industry experts, as we talked about, are excellent in their job, and they can create excellent content, but they’re not always good in then delivering that data. So it’s also for us sometimes a challenge to push the industry experts to the next level and say, okay, but we need to prove the clients paying for you. So we need to prove that. And that return on investment, what is important for the brand, so, and also for the brand sometimes other perspective, it’s not always easy that we get. And so if you ask: ‘Where do you want to go? When are you satisfied with the outcome? Can you really define it?’.
There also are challenges because what are our referral points? For example, where can we start? So we see there is still also on that point of the ‘bridge to gap’, some brand companies are way ahead, then of course others and also within the industry experts, some people are more better with data. But I think we still say we trying to push our community and industry experts also to put data on the forefront. And to put it also in our brief that, for example, and how can you prove the return on investment of the campaign. So we also added already in the brief. So we know that we asked for the data as soon as possible.
Tim: I think it’s great, just asking for that and and trying to connect it up. I think that’s a great thing to ask. And a lot of people miss it out. I guess it depends if the influencers are getting a ton of business from loads of brands, then the pressure is not on them to always measure those results. If the business is drying up, and they need to prove more of their impact, then it’ll be the first thing that they do. So I think it’ll be a natural shake out of the industry.
But if you don’t measure the results, if your audience is not what the brand is looking for you’ll get found out at some point, it’s not just about you’re having 100 likes from random community, it’s got to drive something valuable for the brand. So yeah, maybe there’s been some social media amplifiers, if you can call some people out there that have pushed around content on the internet, but not too much more. And I think brands are looking beyond that now.
Mariska: Yes, that’s true. We can see in the MICE industry and we used to be a live business and face to face, we push them all into the digital aspect. So, I think, digital marketing in general influencer marketing is now much more on the agenda than ever before
The second season of B2B Influencer Marketing Chat Series
Welcome to the B2B Influencer Marketing Chat Series where we talk about influencer marketing in the world of MICE (Meetings, Incentives, Conferences and Events). We speak with people from all around the globe about the role, the meaning, impact and possibilities of B2B influencer marketing. You can listen to us and our guests on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts.
We launched the next season of our talks in November 2020. Follow us on Eventbrite and sign up for coming chats with influencers, CVB`s representatives and many other interesting guests from the MICE industry and Social Media world.
World of MICE – events on Eventbrite registration.
